Talk:Same-Sex Marriage/@comment-5298819-20121013220027/@comment-3485791-20121229173111
I don't know what the hell kinda same-sex marriage supporters you've talked to, but those I've met, whether they're gay, straight, bi, trans, whatever, always call the first amendment into question. What I am saying is this: Our Constitution says nothing about same-sex marriage, and it therefore takes no position on the issue. No person I've met has ever called their moral values into question without tracing them straight back to religion. So, morality itself doesn't really take any position on this either. That leaves religion, which takes a strong stance on gay sexual practices themselves, let alone marriage. Therefore, no matter what way you look at this, this isn't a political issue; this is a religious issue. Since the government (our founding principles and other laws) takes no position on this issue, and really the only entity which does is religion, which next to always takes a strong anti-homosexual position, to ban same-sex marriage is establishing a religion. We are forcing a religious belief down the throats of American citizens, bottom line, and we are only forcing a religious belief, not a political or moral one. For that reason, we are, in fact, establishing a religion; we're establishing a particular part of that religion. Just for the record, the Bible discusses both the birth of Jesus and the topic of homosexual practice, so to put a nativity scene in front of the White House would be doing the exact same thing as banning same-sex marriage; we would be taking a piece of a religion (the nativity scene/homosexual practice) and incorporating it into government. Therefore, whichever way you look at it, a gay marriage ban is an establishment of religion. Your murder/same-sex marriage comparison is irrelevant. Banning murder is motivated not solely by religion, but both morality and religion themselves can be called into question here, and frankly, the morality aspect holds a much stronger argument than the religious aspect. However, with same-sex marriage, the only entity which holds a position on the issue is religion. Therefore, we can safely claim that banning murder isn't establishing a religion, but banning same-sex marriage is. Finally--please note that I hold a very similar, if not identical position to yours as far as same-sex marriage is concerned; I feel that, as marriage is a religious institution, the government should not recognize marriages, but civil unions, which I feel should apply to same-sex couples. However, if we're getting the government out of marriage altogether and marriage becomes strictly a religious bond, then we can't force any church to recognize same-sex marriages, as doing so is interfering with the ways of a religion's practices, and I don't think there's any further explanation needed there--if marriage is to remain a governmental institution as well as a religious institution, then the government can deny no two people marriage. If anybody wants to get marriage, they hold the claim that it is their right to do so, as they wish to be joined through their place of worship, be it a church, temple, or whatever else, and that if the government restricts that, they are interfering with religion. This makes it even clearer that banning gay marriage is an establishment of religion (or anti-religion, in any case; there's irony for you, lol). Marriage was first a purely religious ceremony/bond and was then made into a secular...what would you call it? Thing? Yes, let's go with thing, haha. Marriage then became a secular thing with the government getting involved. Therefore, any two people have the right to marry if they so choose and the government has no right to regulate that, seeing as religion still holds the...let's call it copyright to marriage.